DDS22 Transition (PLEASE READ)

[Dennis]

You spend 30€ on one trip to McDonalds?! What the heck are you ordering?!

Hahaha, I was maybe a bit off with that comparison. To be honest, didn’t go there for quite some time so not sure what prices currently are. Just used to the Big Mac index for comparing prices. Hence came up with McDonald’s lol. I’m also just imagining what people think now how I look like hahahaha.

According to the index:

A Big Mac costs €4.27 in the euro area and US$5.65 in the United States.

5.66 us vs 5.16 euro in 2021

[Andrewu91]

Highly unlikely I make the transition. I have bought a lot of WS games through the years and they provide no customer support, yet I get their spam e-mails continuously. One of the reasons, not the only one and not the main one, but one of the reasons I decided to close the GAH was their lack of customer support. I was able to get only one answer from Gary through Myles, who was very kind to help. But no further answers after that. That being said, I understand the admins decision and I hope it's a good one for the league. Good luck moving forward.

Yeah. I'm on the boat of going back to dds3, or staying with 19 for a few more seasons until dds25 is out with new promises or something.

We just got started with this engine. But whatever you guys decide, I hope it's a good one for the league.

[Andrewu91]

Ryan's suggestion to ask for a volume discount is a good one and I'll certainly chip in for a license for everyone.

Also, do we know that a PG with 60 rating can't lead the league in scoring in '22 version?

I don’t know it, but I guess it’s tested and feedback provided to Gary. I was just mentioning one of the craziest things off. I could go on with other stuff though as well.

In the real NBA, the worst teams have "stat padders". When one of those guys win a title, then I see an issue here. But stat padding on bad teams is normal. Cousins on my team would be a 6th man, which he really is, or else he would take shots away from my most valuable guys, and my team wouldn't be as good.

Points doesn't always mean value.

And the post issue with point guards/shooting guards can be fixed in 19 anyway, if this was a huge issue. Or just do what Kyrus does with his team, and find another way to win. Plenty of ways to win games.

This all just seems premature because of the complaints. Someone puts time into the game and they will succeed. Making a good roster is one thing, coaching one, is a totally different topic.

[Dennis]

Ryan's suggestion to ask for a volume discount is a good one and I'll certainly chip in for a license for everyone.

Also, do we know that a PG with 60 rating can't lead the league in scoring in '22 version?

I don’t know it, but I guess it’s tested and feedback provided to Gary. I was just mentioning one of the craziest things off. I could go on with other stuff though as well.

In the real NBA, the worst teams have "stat padders". When one of those guys win a title, then I see an issue here. But stat padding on bad teams is normal. Cousins on my team would be a 6th man, which he really is, or else he would take shots away from my most valuable guys, and my team wouldn't be as good.

Points doesn't always mean value.

And the post issue with point guards/shooting guards can be fixed in 19 anyway, if this was a huge issue. Or just do what Kyrus does with his team, and find another way to win. Plenty of ways to win games.

This all just seems premature because of the complaints. Someone puts time into the game and they will succeed. Making a good roster is one thing, coaching one, is a totally different topic.

Cousins is a stat padder? Good D, Shooting 49%, averaging 34points. Not best FT%, cant hit 3s and turnover prone (mostly due to insane high usage). I wouldnt call that stat padding. They also swept the Nuggets last year.

Post tendency in general is a problem. It doesnt matter if big man or guard. Kyrus is running the same strat like 90% of the teams with KAT. He could be even better with a PG like cousins though. But else he's doing what most other teams do. Post scorer + Shooter around that guy.

If you want to anme a team that is doing different it is mostly Manu. Huge respect that he gets his team running with something that's not common around the league.

"Coaching" in DDS19 ist mostly using right floor ranges and prefs. The differences for me between using the different off and def strats are minor. Putting togehter a solid team will always be needed. Phil built a good foundation and you added some fitting (easy to get) roleplayers around the stars. Indeed.

[Silogical]

Post tendency in general is a problem. It doesnt matter if big man or guard. Kyrus is running the same strat like 90% of the teams with KAT. He could be even better with a PG like cousins though. But else he's doing what most other teams do. Post scorer + Shooter around that guy.

Post dominating the game isnt a DDS19 issue. It is a transition issue. In my testing shooting was actually the strongest.

There are a lot of reasons why post play couldve got so strong. Too strong of a buff to inside shooting, too strong of a nerf to blocking ect.

Speaking of cousins specifically, he received very favorable transition ratings.

compare bird and cousins
bird scr 61 pass 56
cousins scr 61 pass 72

looking at those ratings you would think cousins pass preference would be way higher than birds but its not bird is 75 and cousins is 77. Here is how that translates to the game
Bird 6.6 FGA/g
Cousins 29.2 FGA/g

Im no fan of DDS19 i think its trash i dont even use matchups, but i dont see 2022 coming out balanced. There will be a style of play better than the others and everyone will do it. Same as DDS19

[emplep7]

Yeah, 22 will not be a savior by any means and still has a basic build around the 19 structure. There will likely be a formula that works for most teams in some regard again, but that was true dating back to DDS3 as well.

My overall view is that there will be improvements from DDS19 to DDS22 in a handful of ways, but I don't expect an overhaul until they a future version where they make more significant changes to the engine again.

[bt]

It's funny because I mentioned it a fair while ago now but maybe allowing GM's to 'alter' players too much actually breaks things.

You can try coach an NBA player to change but that's how they play and you find players to fit your system or try a system to fit your players. Here we just alter players and then when people find ways to succeed, players just become what they need. You can tell Westbrook to 100% drive but we all know he ain't doing that, lol.

Yes it takes away a bit of the fun changing a player and trying to make him better but just a thought as maybe we contributed a little to the weird way the game plays.

[Silogical]

It's funny because I mentioned it a fair while ago now but maybe allowing GM's to 'alter' players too much actually breaks things.

You can try coach an NBA player to change but that's how they play and you find players to fit your system or try a system to fit your players. Here we just alter players and then when people find ways to succeed, players just become what they need. You can tell Westbrook to 100% drive but we all know he ain't doing that, lol.

Yes it takes away a bit of the fun changing a player and trying to make him better but just a thought as maybe we contributed a little to the weird way the game plays.

we wouldnt put our guards in the post if guards didnt have way too high post ratings. If ratings arnt severly lopsided in one area there wouldnt be a problem.

If you take away instructions youll just end up with broken players that wont fit any system.

[bt]

Not saying it's not broken. I ran a league for a long time and I'm definitely not a fan of the games but I'm not sure we helped either.

[Flaming Homer]

From test's and playing in another league with the 20 engine for a while, I don't think it is shooting ratings or to lesser degree floor ranges.

Player seem just more successful closer to the basket, which is correct for big's but not for guards, at least not at this rate.
In the 20 engine we used the Wolverine Default roster and the ratings and only the in game training was allowed. But same tendency, GM tired to get their player all towards post.

@Silo: do you have still the test results were you see that the shooting was better?
Would like to compare that to our tests.

[Silogical]

From test's and playing in another league with the 20 engine for a while, I don't think it is shooting ratings or to lesser degree floor ranges.

Player seem just more successful closer to the basket, which is correct for big's but not for guards, at least not at this rate.
In the 20 engine we used the Wolverine Default roster and the ratings and only the in game training was allowed. But same tendency, GM tired to get their player all towards post.

@Silo: do you have still the test results were you see that the shooting was better?
Would like to compare that to our tests.

I dont have anything from my testing. All i remember is catch and shoot/pull up/drive needed a cap, bigmen were terrible from 3-10 feet and pass rating was changed to pass preference. I also created formulas to fill out the new ratings. I also remember the most dominant offensive player was a player created to look like monk.

I think a universal formula should be used to determine pass preference. There should also be a minimum pass pref to play PG, but if teams want to play a player with too low pass pref they can use 1 instruction to make that adjustment.

You guys should run another test league, i think you learn a lot more that way.

[Ramcus]

Will pass rating influence the amount of shot attempts a player receives in 22?

[Flaming Homer]

The test so far show, that a player with a higher pass rate has higher usage rate. Not necessary higher FGA.

Of course that depends also a lot on position of the player, strats used by the team and the overall setup of the team.

[Rizzo]

PB22 30% off this weekend if you use the code ALLSTAR. May be helpful to some if we are definitely making the move.

[Marcos_Beck]

One very important aspect about DDs22 seems to be the player personalities. How are these gonna be implemented in our league? They are going. To have a daily impact in teams as some players won’t like each other because of personalities, or they won’t play to their full potentials because their personalities doesn’t match, for example.. It seems that it is a daily job to manage not only DC, submatrix, trades, but also personalities and whatever might happen like players fighting. This is easy to do in single player mode but how are we using that for multiplayer?

EDIT: Also, now there’s a much improved system we’re going to use, but some things like player promises and player talks, how’s it gonna be handled? I mean, promises for example, they might require having several players over 4 stars for example, but our judgement on players differs a lot from dds’s engine’s judgment..

[Flaming Homer]

One very important aspect about DDs22 seems to be the player personalities. How are these gonna be implemented in our league? They are going. To have a daily impact in teams as some players won’t like each other because of personalities, or they won’t play to their full potentials because their personalities doesn’t match, for example.. It seems that it is a daily job to manage not only DC, submatrix, trades, but also personalities and whatever might happen like players fighting. This is easy to do in single player mode but how are we using that for multiplayer?

EDIT: Also, now there’s a much improved system we’re going to use, but some things like player promises and player talks, how’s it gonna be handled? I mean, promises for example, they might require having several players over 4 stars for example, but our judgement on players differs a lot from dds’s engine’s judgment..

The game file will be generated without special player personalities.
But the game can add them later. We are not sure how often and when that can happen.

The FA will handled 100% in game, starting next years off-season. The game decides what is a 4-star player.
This year we will still have the hybrid FA, and 22 will be only used after the TC. We will post more details shortly.