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5 under 5 over

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Cleasby
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5 under 5 over

Post Author: Cleasby » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:04 pm

With all the draft buzz and free agency possibilities I thought I would see who the 4 most underrated players in the CSL are today and why they are quietly helping their teams win. As well as 4 overrated players who seem to have value despite not helping generate wins.

5 underrated
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1. Trey Burke
The Hawks had a fantastic season getting 50 wins and pushing some of the elite teams in the East during the playoffs. Many will look at Exum Whiteside and Holiday as the key players around this Hawks transformation but there is one player who has flown under the radar this year, Trey Burke. In 22 minutes he is averaging 10.7 points, 3.4 assist and 0.9 steals per game hitting a career best 48% from the field. When you have someone like that backing up Holiday and Exum it means the second unit can flow when they sit.

2. Jordan Clarkson
In a league starved of decent point guards who can defend and shoot from range as well as have a positive impact on setting the team’s tempo Jordan Clarkson has been quietly picking up wins and stats to help keep the Trailblazers moving to a solid 50 win season. Putting up a solid stat line of 16.9 points, 4 assists, 3.3 rebounds and 0.9 steals in 33 minutes per contest, shooting 47.3 % from the field and 45.7 % from three-point range.

3. Tim Quarterman
Quite possibly my favourite wing 6th man in the league. I don’t quite know why this guy is not starting for Golden State. He can score incredibly well (46% 11 points in 18 minutes) and he is an average defender. When you have a start 2 in Durant and Harden someone like Quarterman should be a no brainer because he simply hits open shots.

4. James Young
Denver has undergone a Cinderella style flip this season. Moving from a lottery bound team to a western conference powerhouse in just one short season. Yes drafting Tatum and trading for Wall and Drummond has put the Nuggets over the top. But do not forget the 4th and final move they made acquiring James Young before the deadline. A lost man on a lottery bound LA Clippers team Young has been possibly the best 6th man in the league this year putting up a 16 points 3.8 assists 1.1 steals stat line with 45% FG he has been doing a bit of everything with the second unit, not only that but he has been forcing 2 turnovers a game and his efficiency rating has been 3rd highest on the team. There will no doubt be free agency teams circling around him come free agency but for a player who was left for dead on the Clippers he is showing that he can put up numbers on a winning team.

5. Moe Harkless
There seems to be a slight theme with the Clippers finding underrated players. Which if this is anything to go by it means LA could finally be relevant sooner rather than later. Cast aside as a guy with a crazy contract of 11 million per year Harkless has been stuck on a Clippers team all season. But proving his versatility he has shown signs of stellar defence form the wing (90% stop 1.7 turnovers forced) and maintained his solid scoring output (12 points, 42%) despite being forced to jack up double the 3’s he has ever had to in a season. I doubt it will be long before someone bites and takes a look at him given the contract length shortening and his 2 way game.

5 overrated

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1. Draymond Green
With this list there are always going to be a lot of marmite guys, players who you either love or hate them and with Draymond Green you certainly have that. Some GM’s will say he is a star and the best player on the Grizzlies whilst other will simply say he does nto add any value. I am unfortunately with the latter, for a start the guy cannot shoot (40%) and does nothing else but rebound and block. Yes his PA/SF is ok at 0.9 but I wonder how much of that is to do with Greens defence and more a simple case that the Grizzlies have Biyombo and Zeller buttoning down the post. For a guy who is earning £12m for the foreseeable future I would expect far more from him if the Grizzlies are to fight for a playoff place next year.

2. Nerlens Noel
Another player with an insane contract based on his performance. His PA/Sf is 1.0 which is never a great start if you are a centre. Yes Noel can shoot ok when called upon but for a player earning £17m a year you need to bring more to the table than simply a bit of shot blocking and rebounding. No doubt someone will fall in love with his blocking ability again this offseason and he will be moved on from the Bucks who have the far more competent Jonas Valanciunas sitting in the wings.

3. Robert Covington
The Orlando Magic are a perculiar team. They have bucked the trend of playing a natural point guard and are rebuilding around a young scoring core of Wiggins and Jackson. But there is one player who I feel is a bit overrated, Robert Covington. He is coming off his worst shooting season since he entered the league 4 seasons ago (10 points, 38% FG) and worst defensive stopping rate ever (70%), it is very lucky that the Magic are only paying him the average player salary of £5m which means he is a bit more bearable. But as a guy they plan to build around with Wiggins and Jackson Covington will need to make some further steps forward to bring this team back to the playoffs.

4. Tyler Ulis
When you cannot play defence as a point guard you are always going to be in trouble. If you can play at an acceptable level and bring additional qualities on offence such as range of ball handling you can be passable. Unfortunatel Tyler Ulis’s defence is just that bad he is the worst net negative in the league for a guard outside of Stockton (45% stop), yes we know he can shoot ok and is a decent ball handler but that defence is so bad it ruins anything. Which is probably the reason he ended up on the clippers after failed attempts by Denver and Houston to keep hyping him up. But teams are still swung by his offensive abilities that someone will likely overpay to get him and his £7m contract.

5. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
A 50 win team with an overrated player, I must be going crazy right? Wrong, yes the Hawks have been phenomenal this year but this has very little to do with KCP. His defence is not bad with plus 90% stops and 2 turnovers forced but it is on the offensive side of the ball that he is overrated by some margin. When I talk to GM’s they say how KCP is a greta defence and 3 guy. Yes the defence is right but the 3, no way. This year he shout a miserable 36% from deep a near career worst not the kind of numbers you want from a guy who needs to hit open 3’s from Exum’s driving. Even worse is the fact he is earning £15m a year!
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Flaming Homer
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Flaming Homer » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:45 pm

Good read and two guys of the Hawks mentioned :-)
Burke was really a nice get. He is doing everything as a backup and even was able to hold the fort down in the playoffs as Jrue was out. Was not enough to give the Heat a real fight, but could not have asked more of Trey.

I agree also with KCP seeing just the regular season numbers. BUT ever since we traded for him we were able to put pressure on the whole opponent's wing and that really helped us to elevate our game. And in the playoffs he really showed up. Best scoring avg with 18pts while shooting 46% from the field and 47% from three. That are the reasons he is not being discussed in any trade talks this season, he is important for the way we want to play.

To the other guys I only can agree with Ulis since I had him one season.
He is a solid backup PG but as he got this 7M deal he was just way overpaid.

I like Harkless on this list. I was looking into him again and again and it is only the 11M salary that was in the way kind of.

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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Dennis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:51 pm

No celtic as overrated? I feel offended. As of the list it seems to be a good selection. I think 36% from deep ain’t bad though.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: KW » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:09 pm

Completely disagree on Quarterman. Preference work could help him, but he's a negative right now. He takes as many shots as he scores points. If you can't hit threes (7%!!) or free throws (53%), you really need to be above 50% from the floor for your scoring to be a positive asset. He's taking shots away from players who deserve them and shoot 10-15 TS% higher than him.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Dylan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:52 pm

Good read, a few of these guys are hitting free agency so should be interesting where they land.

We have one player on the overrated and one on the underrated (for now ;)). We also traded one of your underrateds for an overrated, lol. Obviously that was due to a lot of factors and wasn't a straight up deal, but interesting nonetheless.

Harkless is a really solid player and it's why I didn't rush to deal him this season. He's verballed as part of a package that will help me restock on some assets that a team in the middle of nowhere needs, but he's awesome and I hope to see him make an impact on a contender next year.

Ulis is definitely a negative defensively, but I still value his scoring punch and playmaking, likely off the bench. Next to Hezonja it would be a defensive nightmare, but I don't think his defense makes him a useless player by any means.

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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Ramcus » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Damn Harkless rly that good at defense?
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Jestor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:43 pm

Ramcus wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:03 pm
Damn Harkless rly that good at defense?
He's really good yeah and even more importantly, he has decent handles for the 3. He's a guy I looked at several times earlier in his career (too old now for our window)

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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Andrewu91 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:18 pm

Qi?
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: bt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:43 am

It's a really good area to look at because it's so dependent on how GM's view players. Not in the overrated/underrated sense but it's really heavily weighted to if a GM is a rating or stats guy really.

Like I can completely understand some look at Draymond as highly overrated but there would also be some that don't because they don't look at the stats and more the ratings. It's a really good argument and good article.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: hardenwithnod » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 pm

Interesting read, as BT has mentioned we all value players a little bit differently, so it's interesting to see how you evaluate players based on this list. I think Noel is usually a bit better defensively, but had an off year. Also doesn't help that he's on a max contract.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:25 pm

hardenwithnod wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 pm
Interesting read, as BT has mentioned we all value players a little bit differently, so it's interesting to see how you evaluate players based on this list. I think Noel is usually a bit better defensively, but had an off year. Also doesn't help that he's on a max contract.
Noel would be a solid big on a 8-10M deal. He can do a bit of everything and is a very good defender. But his contract, man that hurts.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Cleasby » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:29 pm

Marcos_Beck wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:25 pm
hardenwithnod wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 pm
Interesting read, as BT has mentioned we all value players a little bit differently, so it's interesting to see how you evaluate players based on this list. I think Noel is usually a bit better defensively, but had an off year. Also doesn't help that he's on a max contract.
Noel would be a solid big on a 8-10M deal. He can do a bit of everything and is a very good defender. But his contract, man that hurts.
Exactly this. He is just overpaid a lot haha
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: WillyJakkz » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:49 am

Marcus Smart is overrated. Stated this several times via pm to Cleas.

Smart got beaten by Malik Monk and secondary scraps due to HOU injuries. He has always shown up short in the postseason without Al Horford. It was Al Horford who was the guy on that team and it showed during the PO's once again. The guy shot
35% from the field, a laughable 23% from 3 while taking 23 shots to score 19ppg and singlehandedly cost them the series.

Marcus Smart: http://csl.we.bs/1274.html

Al Horford: http://csl.we.bs/4.html

Regular season superstar though for sure but he gets too much of a leash but a guy like Stanley Johnson Jr who has had much more success gets flack for "shooting" OKC out of games by many GM's here. Will be interesting to see his max contract after FA this season.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:06 am

I'd love to have overrated Smart on my team.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: bt » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:14 am

Yes Smart absolutely had a bad post season this year but other than this blip, he's been fine. Even with this season. still averages over 20 a game at 46% in the playoffs... and that's for a guard.

SJJ comes in at 21 a game but at just over 41% for a big. That's poor.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:34 am

Plus Smart is a great defender.. it’s not only the offensive side that matters in this case.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: bt » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:04 am

Yeah, exactly.

Unfortunately Smart had an average/poor playoffs this season defensively but one out of many is allowed and no one questions him defensively really.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: mgtr81 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm

I have to agree with bt. In my opinion, the Thunder won last year because of adding Bledsoe and MKG and despite having Johnson.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: hardenwithnod » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:51 pm

Smart is definitely worth that money, as it's hard to find a two way player like him.
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Re: 5 under 5 over

Post Author: WillyJakkz » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:29 pm

bt wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:14 am
Yes Smart absolutely had a bad post season this year but other than this blip, he's been fine. Even with this season. still averages over 20 a game at 46% in the playoffs... and that's for a guard.

SJJ comes in at 21 a game but at just over 41% for a big. That's poor.
You're only looking at this yr but I linked his other yrs where he was 4 game swept back to back yrs prior to Horford.

He's the NBA version of James Harden, can't be counted on to lead a team. Great cog just not an alpha and that's ok.

But he is overrated moreso than any other star in the CSL. Stats and wins don't lie.
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