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Trade Chatter

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Dennis
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Dennis » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:31 am

BizGilwalker wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:57 am
Give me Guler over Payne. Factor in Payne is making $10M and the Guler is on a rookie scale contract and he gets other useful role players on top.... I love this for Golden State. I can understand preferring one PG over the other, but i fail to see how this is a lopsided trade that is terrible for GS, as Dennis suggests. Even the bit with Denver, I think it's maybe slightly tilted in Marcos favor but nothing big and comes down to preference. The NOLA part is the only really bad part of this deal.
I thought GS is going all in. Now they are rebuilding. Payne >>> Güler before endurance boost by a landslide. This is a anti win now move which is weird given their core is aging. If Güler or Payne will have better careers has to be seen.
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Marcos_Beck
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Marcos_Beck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:04 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:57 am
Give me Guler over Payne. Factor in Payne is making $10M and the Guler is on a rookie scale contract and he gets other useful role players on top.... I love this for Golden State. I can understand preferring one PG over the other, but i fail to see how this is a lopsided trade that is terrible for GS, as Dennis suggests. Even the bit with Denver, I think it's maybe slightly tilted in Marcos favor but nothing big and comes down to preference. The NOLA part is the only really bad part of this deal.
That’s what I meant. Payne or Guler is a question of player preference. Denver deal is only looks better because I found someone to take Teague and use him.
And NOLA deal only happened because Chris didn’t scout, and didn’t want to draft blind. That’s not something that normally happens but given the circumstances that’s a nice return for a pick they could have nailed or could have wasted.
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Rizzo
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Rizzo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:08 pm

Jeff knows I wanted Payne badly but he said in any trade he needed to get a PG in return. He was able to grab Guler and Teague and if that's what Jeff believes will help his team win now - a player that's a more pure point than Payne - then more power to him. I'm just bummed I couldn't put the pieces together to make a deal for Payne.
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Marcos_Beck
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Marcos_Beck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:14 pm

We shouldn’t sleep on the Warriors. With Guler / Harden / Bird / KD / Favors, improved depth with Teague, Ferrell, Quarterman and both Plumlee’s, they can run a high zone setup and turn the game into a shooting contest. With Favors and both brothers controlling the glass and Guler setting up Harden and KD, plus Bird to give them great spacing, they can win almost any shootout.
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Dennis
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Dennis » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:20 pm

Warriors for me are at best 8th seed now as they are worse compared to last season. Internal growth of quarterman has to be seen though. He could make up for the loss of win now talent - long run has to be seen. No idea if Güler will be the better player in the long run.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Andrewu91 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:38 pm

The deal seems sort of even for all teams. Just surprised, given Jeff wants to win now, he turned down Payne+ for Bledsoe
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Ocons » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:08 pm

Lol. Even worse than I thought for NOP afterall. I don't know if I would have traded Plumlee for Brice and Dotson alone, forget adding #16/Allen. I still maintain that picking blindly off the big board - would have been Allen, made more sense but so be it. Good on Marcos for taking advantage of another situation.

I'm not as down on the GSW as I do like Guler, despite being so old already. Payne is for sure better but it's not terrible. Matter of fact, Marcos and I went back and forth on Guler and Cotton for awhile and I approached Jeff about Payne/Cotton when he returned but couldn't pull the trigger. Think, with some more time, there was probably a better deal but this isn't terrible. Don't think it's a steal for Marcos either, by any stretch.

My biggest pet peeve here is that the DEN/CHI deal was done 2 weeks ago. Ridiculous that it can be split off into a new, bigger one.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by BizGilwalker » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:08 pm

Dennis wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:31 am
BizGilwalker wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:57 am
Give me Guler over Payne. Factor in Payne is making $10M and the Guler is on a rookie scale contract and he gets other useful role players on top.... I love this for Golden State. I can understand preferring one PG over the other, but i fail to see how this is a lopsided trade that is terrible for GS, as Dennis suggests. Even the bit with Denver, I think it's maybe slightly tilted in Marcos favor but nothing big and comes down to preference. The NOLA part is the only really bad part of this deal.
I thought GS is going all in. Now they are rebuilding. Payne >>> Güler before endurance boost by a landslide. This is a anti win now move which is weird given their core is aging. If Güler or Payne will have better careers has to be seen.
Guler is fully developed and had 92 EN last season, and it didn't stop him from doing anything for Chicago. It's not like he's a 19-year-old with an EN rating of 84 like Malik Monk that keeps him from playing big minutes. I see it as a marginal upgrade that comes on a 3-year rookie scale contract vs a long term 10M a year contract, allowing him to add other role players with that saved salary money. It's a win in the short and long term.

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emplep7
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by emplep7 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:29 pm

I think its a pretty even swap in the end, which is the confusing part. Golden State has a window of about 1-2 years to win it all which is what Jeff keeps stating yet he made a parallel swap of a player that will not win a ring for him. Bledsoe or Kemba would have put him near the top of the league and actually fit the plan to win a ring with the core they have together - essentially doing exactly what Andrew just did to win a ring.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by hardenwithnod » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:34 pm

One could argue that Cameron Payne has been an underachiever in comparison to his hype.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Ocons » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:02 pm

emplep7 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:29 pm
I think its a pretty even swap in the end, which is the confusing part. Golden State has a window of about 1-2 years to win it all which is what Jeff keeps stating yet he made a parallel swap of a player that will not win a ring for him. Bledsoe or Kemba would have put him near the top of the league and actually fit the plan to win a ring with the core they have together - essentially doing exactly what Andrew just did to win a ring.
No way Bledsoe or Kemba were on the table and he went for Guler. There's for sure more to that unless it's pure speculation after the fact.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Marcos_Beck » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:03 pm

emplep7 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:29 pm
I think its a pretty even swap in the end, which is the confusing part. Golden State has a window of about 1-2 years to win it all which is what Jeff keeps stating yet he made a parallel swap of a player that will not win a ring for him. Bledsoe or Kemba would have put him near the top of the league and actually fit the plan to win a ring with the core they have together - essentially doing exactly what Andrew just did to win a ring.
Another could argue that Kemba or Bledsoe are not really what GSW needs. They already have 3 ball dominant players (KD, Harden, Quarterman) and needs someone to feed them as much as possible. Also Kemba and Bledsoe brings fantastic defense but that's not going to turn them into a great defensive squad, so it would really be wasting both best qualities of those two mentioned players. Not to say that in order to get Kemba or Bledsoe I'm pretty sure Jeff would have to add to Payne (100% sure his future first would be needed) and he wouldn't be able to acquire any playable depth. That's my point of view though, but I'm pretty sure if he opted for Güler (cheaper, cost controlled, younger, better playmaker) and depth + saving money next season, that's his view as well.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Ocons » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

It's a shame GSW didn't have a Brice Johnson, Damyeon Dotson type of combo - he could have traded for a 1st and used that instead of his own pick. . . .
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Cleasby » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:07 pm

Pretty sure the price for Kemba and Bledsoe was a lot more than Guler. Which is probably why GS went with the other option.

Overall it saves them some salary keeps the window the same without moving the needle a huge amount. With a competent GM in Jeff Golden State will be a playoff team and could challenge the rest of the West.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by GreenBear » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:23 pm

Marcos_Beck wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:03 pm
emplep7 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:29 pm
I think its a pretty even swap in the end, which is the confusing part. Golden State has a window of about 1-2 years to win it all which is what Jeff keeps stating yet he made a parallel swap of a player that will not win a ring for him. Bledsoe or Kemba would have put him near the top of the league and actually fit the plan to win a ring with the core they have together - essentially doing exactly what Andrew just did to win a ring.
Another could argue that Kemba or Bledsoe are not really what GSW needs. They already have 3 ball dominant players (KD, Harden, Quarterman) and needs someone to feed them as much as possible. Also Kemba and Bledsoe brings fantastic defense but that's not going to turn them into a great defensive squad, so it would really be wasting both best qualities of those two mentioned players. Not to say that in order to get Kemba or Bledsoe I'm pretty sure Jeff would have to add to Payne (100% sure his future first would be needed) and he wouldn't be able to acquire any playable depth. That's my point of view though, but I'm pretty sure if he opted for Güler (cheaper, cost controlled, younger, better playmaker) and depth + saving money next season, that's his view as well.
Bledsoe has won titles with 2 different teams the past 2 years. He is absolutely what GSW needs for their win-now window. I don't know what else the offers entailed (like Kevin said, there could be more to it), so there could be more to it. Originally when I first heard the deal, I liked Guler's fit in GSW. He does have great playmaking. But his defense is just average, and I didn't realize until I checked, but Guler's shooting was terrible last year (50.5 TS%). Now maybe that was just a poor season and he'll do better in GSW (Jeff has to hope), but that's not what you want to see from your starting PG with 65 SCR.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by emplep7 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:37 pm

I'm not one to publicly put offers on the forum, but I offered Kemba to anyone I felt wanted to compete this year. I can't speak for Bledsoe, but the price I felt was incredibly fair (I didnt ask for a future first) for the type of player that Kemba is. Regardless, he decided to go a different direction which I respect, but this deal doesn't line up with the direction I felt they were going.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Andrewu91 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:56 pm

emplep7 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:37 pm
I'm not one to publicly put offers on the forum, but I offered Kemba to anyone I felt wanted to compete this year. I can't speak for Bledsoe, but the price I felt was incredibly fair (I didnt ask for a future first) for the type of player that Kemba is. Regardless, he decided to go a different direction which I respect, but this deal doesn't line up with the direction I felt they were going.
My offer to GSW was Bledsoe for Payne, 25 first, and that #13 pick selection. When negotiating, you always start with a high price and I certainly would have removed #13 or 25 first if Jeff negotiated with me and brought my price down.

Thing about Bledsoe is, he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be a contributor. He can play SG or PG. No way he would limited Harden or Durant in any way. If anything, with his efficiency, he would have improved Durant and Harden's stats.

Payne and either #13 selection or 25 first was enough for me. Even though Payne has underperformed, I feel like I could have made him reach his potential.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by hardenwithnod » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:59 pm

Send Bledsoe this way then, damn.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Andrewu91 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:10 pm

hardenwithnod wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:59 pm
Send Bledsoe this way then, damn.
I mean at this point, I'm leaning towards keeping him. No offers that interested me and the offers I've made, haven't made enough progress to complete a deal.

We are talking about the two time champion with two different teams here. Figured there would be more interest.
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Re: Trade Chatter

Post by Cleasby » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 pm

hardenwithnod wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:59 pm
Send Bledsoe this way then, damn.
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