Idea: Lowering the Drive Cap?

[Jestor]

Lowering Scoring rating would do little to nothing. The scoring rating's main function is to control who is most likely to take a shot. In fact, I would say scoring ratings are already too low in the league. We have hardly any #1 options and only a handful of #2 options.

[Dennis]

Yeah, its crazy. So many caps needed to get a "realistic result". Keep in mind the PPG will drop as soon as everybody has to run 5 or lower pace. I only changed the pace for Boston and Denver. All other enemies still used 10 for pace. So if Boston faced Detroit the pace of the game was ~7. So the FGA and therefore the PPG will drop again using 5 or lower.

[Jake0890]

Yeah, its crazy. So many caps needed to get a "realistic result". Keep in mind the PPG will drop as soon as everybody has to run 5 or lower pace. I only changed the pace for Boston and Denver. All other enemies still used 10 for pace. So if Boston faced Detroit the pace of the game was ~7. So the FGA and therefore the PPG will drop again using 5 or lower.

Good point, seems like 3 pace gets some pretty realistic results offensively then.

[dapralbe]

the evil of the rookies this fact. and if we try just as putting all the teams pace 3 without doing anything else.

[Sun Scorched]

This draft class is not too strong. I understand the knee jerk reaction, but trust me. Give the league more than one week of games. Most of this is sample size.

Blake Griffin has played against Tobias Harris, rookie Isaiah Austin and 42 year old David West. Who cares if Jabari is averaging over 20 points per game, Melo did out of college as well. Myles and I were super careful about the construction of the most recent draft class. If you knew who some of the players were modeled after it would shock you. So suffice it to say, it's more than likely the fact that we screwed with FCP/DI than this rookie class.

Right, so we essentially nerfed defense and did nothing to compensate on the offensive side.

[Dennis]

Yeah, like said. I believe the rooks are just very developed (but you cant influence their developement during TCs) and therefore you get the feeling they are too strong. Problem is you cant really use the 10s tactic as its too strong and if you dont use those tactics guys like BG just get too strong because they dont face stellar defense. Sometimes I believe just allowing 10s would be the best solution if just everybody would run it.. lol.

[Sun Scorched]

Yeah, like said. I believe the rooks are just very developed and therefore you get the feeling they are too strong. Problem is you cant really use the 10s tactic as its too strong and if you dont use those tactics guys like BG just get too strong. Sometimes I believe just allowing 10s would be the best solution if just everybody would run it.. lol.

I'll say this - I tested all of the rookies several times through training camp to make sure they didn't leap too quickly - I never got close to the improvements that they made in this version of the file. Not clue why, but the results we are left with are, in fact, siginificantly above what was expected.

[Dennis]

Yeah, like said. I believe the rooks are just very developed and therefore you get the feeling they are too strong. Problem is you cant really use the 10s tactic as its too strong and if you dont use those tactics guys like BG just get too strong. Sometimes I believe just allowing 10s would be the best solution if just everybody would run it.. lol.

I'll say this - I tested all of the rookies several times through training camp to make sure they didn't leap too quickly - I never got close to the improvements that they made in this version of the file. Not clue why, but the results we are left with are, in fact, siginificantly above what was expected.

Yeah thats what I wanted to say. You cant influence the TC improvement. So its not on you guys. Absolutely not.

[bt]

Dennis, have you run tests using the default DDS3 roster using different strategies? Or has anyone? If those stats look correct then obviously it's the way the players are rated that are creating the issues and given there's not a lot of history in this league to date, I would nearly go as far as saying it needs a re-rate. Teams/players can stay the same but the same global edits to ratings across the board.

Capping strategies isn't the issue if the ratings are the actual issue. Compare scoring max/mins of the default to CSL, shooting max/mins, preference max/mins, etc.

[Dennis]

Will look into that too this weekend. But at first sight it seems Myles and Jace did recreate the players very carefully and wisely. But you are right. If its a rating problem the tactic caps wont fix it.

[Sun Scorched]

It's the artificial ceiling on FCP/DI, not the ratings.

[GreenBear]

It's the artificial ceiling on FCP/DI, not the ratings.

I think SS is right. While it had its own set of problems (and was definitely unrealistic), we didn't have these offensive issues until FCP/DI was capped.

[WillyJakkz]

Test using default coaches settings for all teams maybe? My preference is using those anyhow but none of the Leagues use those so I understand why. Just seems like an easier solution than adjusting this and that.

Either bring back the "All 10's" or use coach settings is my opinion though likely not other GM's.

Seems like the easiest "fix" is all, and honestly I hadn't even paid attention to the boxscores like that until this thread came up so thanks guys and I'm good with and support whatever the solution may be.

[Marcos_Beck]

What about no caps on skills but do something different, at least I've never seen any sim league doing it:

Between FCP, DI, PACE, DCTB, OCTB and ZONE D (that's every tactic but Player Preference and Player Rotation, sorry if I'm forgetting about any), the team have a limited number of points to use.. For example, if we're Capping 6 tactics together, we'd have 35 points to use on them all, so if I want to board hard defensively and play high DI I'm gonna probably have to play low pace or low FCP..

Each team would have completely different strategies because every team has different strengths and weakness and some managers would likely try to improve on what is a strength of the team, and some will try to hide weakness (like going with 10DREB if your team is poor at rebounding at your own glass so you make sure you're addressing a weakness).

In this case nobody could use the 10 10 10 10 all strats and we're not limited in anything, just have to choose what we think is more important for our team. I personally don't like the idea of capping pace at 3, because I mean, I want to play at a slow pace to rotate the ball and find the best shot possible, and I was playing pace 4, but now that everyone is playing on pace 3, a slow pace is what, pace 1? Nope, 3 is already very slow so I'm gonna play 3 because it fits my style, but now I can't counter high pace teams with a slower, half court game without compromising my own team, I can't play the way I really want.
If it's the only way for the league to be successful than let it be the way it is, and I'm fine with everything, but personally if we're to CAP anything I prefer capping every important CAP together and not only one tactic and say you can't get past this value in this specific tactic.

[bt]

I just had a look at the default data (default.dat for anyone interested). The fine details only a commissioner can see I think compared to what we see in game (breakdown of post/dunk for current ratings) and they are the only ones who can see the shooting details (FGI/FGD) which are the two areas of issue it seems but I'm confused on how preferences work in this game if anyone knows.

I know the previous game well and the previous game had preferences total 100 (25 post, 50 jumper, 25 three) yet in this game, Tyson Chandler (default data) has 81 dunk, 77 post, 83 drive, 23 jumper and 0 three point totalling 264. Now apparently the game has a drive/shoot mechanic but shouldn't that be based on 100% also? So 83 drive/17 shoot yet is't 23 jumper?

It's possible these could be completely tweaked to make a much better preference system but someone might know more than me and how the new game works.

[Marcos_Beck]

I just had a look at the default data (default.dat for anyone interested). The fine details only a commissioner can see I think compared to what we see in game (breakdown of post/dunk for current ratings) and they are the only ones who can see the shooting details (FGI/FGD) which are the two areas of issue it seems but I'm confused on how preferences work in this game if anyone knows.

I know the previous game well and the previous game had preferences total 100 (25 post, 50 jumper, 25 three) yet in this game, Tyson Chandler (default data) has 81 dunk, 77 post, 83 drive, 23 jumper and 0 three point totalling 264. Now apparently the game has a drive/shoot mechanic but shouldn't that be based on 100% also? So 83 drive/17 shoot yet is't 23 jumper?

It's possible these could be completely tweaked to make a much better preference system but someone might know more than me and how the new game works.

As far as I know, from what guys have explained in the past, you have up to 300 points:
100 points divided in Post / Jumper / 3pts
100 points divided in Drive / Shot
100 points divided in Dunk / Layup

So you see 81 dunk, it's the dunk / layup ratio, every time he tries a inside shot, it has 81% chance to be a dunk and 19% to be a layup. Of course, guys with higher dunk ratio will probably have better FG% as Layups are easier to block than dunks.

Then drive x shot ratio, he has 83 drive which means he'll try to drive to the basket for a dunk/layup 83% of the time and will take a Jumpshot or a close shot 17% of the time.

Then the last one, which means that, when shooting, he'll go for a post move 77% of the time, 23% will be midrange jumpers, and in his case, he'll never take any 3s, zero percent chance of him taking them, except for late shot clock situations, but when he looks to shoot barring any clock issues, it will never be a 3pt.

[Sun Scorched]

I just had a look at the default data (default.dat for anyone interested). The fine details only a commissioner can see I think compared to what we see in game (breakdown of post/dunk for current ratings) and they are the only ones who can see the shooting details (FGI/FGD) which are the two areas of issue it seems but I'm confused on how preferences work in this game if anyone knows.

I know the previous game well and the previous game had preferences total 100 (25 post, 50 jumper, 25 three) yet in this game, Tyson Chandler (default data) has 81 dunk, 77 post, 83 drive, 23 jumper and 0 three point totalling 264. Now apparently the game has a drive/shoot mechanic but shouldn't that be based on 100% also? So 83 drive/17 shoot yet is't 23 jumper?

It's possible these could be completely tweaked to make a much better preference system but someone might know more than me and how the new game works.

Dunk and Drive are uncorrelated. There isn't a "Shoot" rating, because it's implied it's the inverse of the Drive rating. Drive = 30, Shoot = 70.

Post, jumper and three all total 100. Dunk has nothing to do with these three.

[bt]

Makes sense. I don't agree with how it has been implemented in the game but it explains a lot.

In the previous game also, if a player drove and was stopped but took a shot, it was a jumper not an inside shot. Maybe the league is playing not enough zone and letting everyone in, lol.

Seriously though, if you're using a broken engine, which by all accounts it has been and always will be, there's not much the league can do but suck it up. Fix one thing and another will open up. You want to limit drive caps, then fine but as above, oppositions zone level also contributes to what a player gets inside so it's not just driving issues alone.

[Dennis]

Makes sense. I don't agree with how it has been implemented in the game but it explains a lot.

In the previous game also, if a player drove and was stopped but took a shot, it was a jumper not an inside shot. Maybe the league is playing not enough zone and letting everyone in, lol.

Seriously though, if you're using a broken engine, which by all accounts it has been and always will be, there's not much the league can do but suck it up. Fix one thing and another will open up. You want to limit drive caps, then fine but as above, oppositions zone level also contributes to what a player gets inside so it's not just driving issues alone.

Yeah its true. If you try to fix one thing there is another thing that opens up. Has anyone a lot experience with DDS4? Is the engine better? Not saying we should change to DDS4, but in general, anyone played it a lot?