Idea: Lowering the Drive Cap?

[orangeparka]

This is something that I always felt last season, and about ~15 games of preseason and this season (admittedly a small sample size) have added to my belief.

IMO, the drive cap (currently at 70 I believe?) should be lowered further. I just think it makes the shot distribution (especially for perimeter players) and usage way too unrealistic.

My theory on why it'll be worse this season is that before, high-drive guys could at least be thwarted somewhat by great defenders or high STL (10 DEF/10 FCP strats)--meaning they at least paid with highly variable games and high TOPG--but with no more 10/10 defenses and generally laxer defense overall with the new rule, I see this getting even worse.

I mean just on my team Blake is averaging 49.0 PPG on 73.5% FG through three games. Only three games yes, and not the best example as he's a big, but still pretty ridiculous a stretch. I don't remember the numbers exactly but he was doing pretty damn well in the Preseason as well.

In short, combating a star SCR player with high drive is harder than before with new rules, and should be reflected in the drive cap, which was too high to begin with anyway.

[Jake0890]

Lowering the drive cap could work, and I've expressed this to Dennis and andrei already, but the pace needs to be capped as well. In my first game, my team took over 100 shots, which led to 124 points. It's a crazy high number that isn't even remotely realistic due to the high pace combined with NON 10 DI 10 FCP defense. Scoring is becoming an issue just like before. Wall triple double. Lillard with TWO triple double. Griffin with 56 and 44. Harden with a career high 57. Dwight with 31. Bledsoe 34. All of that in the 2nd sim! I mean, come on, that's just ridiculous. If we let this continue, all these guys will be averaging over 30, and we'd probably have some guys over 40.

Pace either needs to be capped at 6 or say every team has 15 points to allocate to FCP, DI, and pace but none of those categories could be a 10.

Again, I've said this to andrei and Dennis already, but I still think it needs to be said.

[Marcos_Beck]

I'd suggest we make 3 rules about capping tactics / player preferences

1- Drives caps at 60% (which is still high but you can't make it 50-50 otherwise you'd only mainly have jump shooters and basketball do not work like that).
2- FCP, DI and Pace capped at 18 points (at least one point in each one).
3- Both Off and Def Crash the Boards together with Zone Defense Capped at 23 points.

Maybe I'm being to strict but this way it would limit lot's of problems we have right now. I just don't like putting 10 in everything, but that's my own opinion.

[Marcos_Beck]

Or, even better, make values even lower..

Drive cap at 60%
FCP + DI + Pace cap at 16
OffCTB + DefCTB + Zone D cap at 20

[bt]

Too much work. The who re-rating/restart was meant to fix this so it seems some preferences are still way too high? Why were these not edited when the re-rate occurred? Obviously not the new commissioners but if it wasn't fixed, maybe it should be before the season goes any further.

[Dennis]

Hey guys,

I already noticed the Problem too and run some test's yesterday. At season end Wall had 19 triple double, Blake was averaging 42 points. Problem here is, they are way too strong. Same for the draftclass. Philadelphia just raped. James young was averaging 14/6/6 and Jabari 26 per game in his first season. After 4 guys send me a private that my class should be more realistic I can say the class wont be that overpowered. There wont be a Marble at #29 available or a Cotton at #15. Some proposed to nerf the Rookies, but that would be unfair to the guys that did draft them.

About the strategy fixes. Its obvious it doesnt work the way we are actually Handling it. Not sure if its an enginge problem or Wall,Griffin etc got recreated way too strong after the restart. Like said Ive run some Tests and it seems capping the pace helps. (For example Boston averaging 114 with 10, 104 with 3). But I need some more time to run Tests and wont be able to before this weekend.

So a few possibilities.
A) We put the league on hold until Ive gone through some further Tests
B) We continue the way it is until the weekend

I would Name C) we cap pace to 5 already yet. But that would require every team to get in a New DC within a few hours and that would be unfair/impossible. Also I need to talk to Andrei first. But you guys are right, its ridiculous.

[orangeparka]

We recreated players before the restart?

I think Drive is one of the main things, at least in terms of usage.

Hope ya'll figure out the best way to go about this.

[Dennis]

Yes. Jace and Myles recreated all player and wanted to fix the Problem. They fixed Lillard for example but it seems Griffin wasnt edited that much.
Im not too concerned about the FG%. We can fix it via tactics and Drive caps. The Major problem is the draftclass. Its way too strong. Guys like Knight, Burke or Sullinger wouldnt have been picked in the Top45. A guy like Cotton will shoot 50%+ from the Field. He's pretty much a Rubio with a shot and got picked at 15. Payne is a Franchiseplayer and was selected at #30. To Name only a few examples. Guys like Knight or Burke should be top20 selections. The league just got flooded by way above average player.
Parker is already on Melo's level in his first year. Its not easy to create a draftclass, I learned it myself the last few weeks, but this draftclass is just ridiculous. (not saying I will do it better)

[orangeparka]

Yes. Jace and Myles recreated all player and wanted to fix the Problem. They fixed Lillard for example but it seems Griffin wasnt edited that much.
Im not too concerned about the FG%. We can fix it via tactics and Drive caps. The Major problem is the draftclass. Its way too strong. Guys like Knight, Burke or Sullinger wouldnt have been picked in the Top45. A guy like Cotton will shoot 50%+ from the Field. He's pretty much a Rubio with a shot and got picked at 15. Payne is a Franchiseplayer and was selected at #30. To Name only a few examples. Guys like Knight or Burke should be top20 selections. The league just got flooded by way above average player.
Parker is already on Melo's level in his first year. Its not easy to create a draftclass, I learned it myself the last few weeks, but this draftclass is just ridiculous. (not saying I will do it better)

Oh, you mean like the hidden efficiency ratings? That's good, guys like Lillard were crazy haha.

I generally agree on the draft. Can't see the players yet but some of them look great. My issue is mainly that there are rarely any busts in drafts when there actually many huge busts who are typically out of the league very often, even in the first round and in the lottery.

[Dennis]

Okay, so Ive run some tests via my laptop during lunch. I used the Boston Celtics for it because I believe we are no bad team but also no contender. You can say mediocre. Set Zone to 5, DI to 5 and FCP to 5. Rebounding both at 10. Afterwards just changed the pace. Also I changed Denvers tactics to the same, just to see BGs numbers. I always simmed until the allstar break. Tactic: Standard.

Test Results pace 10
Boston Points per game: 120.7 (5th)
FG%: 47.1 (5th)
Allowed per game: 109.2
BG: 39.4 / 13.3 / 61%
Nuggets leading the way with an insane 124 point per game and above 50% shooting.

Test Results pace 5
Boston Points per game: 113.3 (7th) (nuggets exactly the same)
FG%: 46.5 (6th) / Denver 48% (1st)
Allowed per game: 104.8 / Denver 106
BG: 31.3 / 12.8 / 59%

Test Results pace 3 (it has to be a fluke season because Celtics finished with a 3x-7, so better look at Denvers stats)
Boston Points per game: 111.9 (6th) / Nuggets 108.1 (13th)
FG%: 47.3 (1st) / Denver 47.1% (2nd)
Allowed per game: 98.3 (3rd) / Denver 103.7 (9th)
BG: 29.7 / 12.1 / 60%

Wall (didnt change washington strats) finished with 7 TD (keep in mind until the allstar break) and 25-9.1-8.2[/b]

Results: It seems 5 is still too high, but could be considered. 3 is a crazy limitation, so I might opt for pace 4. Will run a test with 4 this evening, but my lunch break is done and I still have to finish my subway

Please feedback!

[Dennis]

Just another idea, IMO the young rooks like Parker came into the league way too developed. We cant edit the potentials (and wont) as it would be unfair for the GMs that did draft them. But Parker for example was FULLY developed after the January 8 update. He was pretty much Melo 2.0 after half a season.

I believe overall the class might be fine. But they are too developed. You get the feeling they are too strong because they already put up insane numbers, but they just dont have much potential left.

[Marcos_Beck]

After all this tests I still believe we'd do better by Capping some things together (like 3 Tactics and 15 points to distribute between them) than only Capping pace. that's why I like my idea I posted above, FCP + DI + Pace Capped at a 16 sum, DCTB + OCTB + Zone Capped at 20.
Want to run? Fine. Put 8 Pace but pay it defensively, I mean you're going to run but you either will have one DI and high FCP too, or high DI / low FCP, which will lower your steak and fast break options.

At least by capping 3 things together lets us have more freedom choosing what tactic fits better our team and what we're willing to give up to have this tactics high.

Another example of tactics so you guys can see if you like it or not:

DI 7 FCP 3 Pace 6 (16 sum)
Zone 8 DTCB 10 OCTB 2 (20 sum)

Play aggressive D (but not as aggressive as other teams could play), and above average pace, while playing pretty low FCP. Also high zones and all you can at rebounding at your own glass, but at the expense of offensive boards.

Maybe 16 and 20 Caps are still high, but I really don't think so. those values can make you either opt go average in everything or go very high in one skill (9 or 10) and low on others considering the 16 Cap and high on two skills (say 8 or 9) and low on the other considering 20 Cap.

About draft class, I have a very good player in McRae and would love to see him develop as the ultimate low-usage 3&D wimg, perfect fit for my team and my plans. But I don't want to see a rookie class dominating the league in two years so I'm very concerned and wouldn't br against a nerf at all as long as it's very criterious, by separating players in group ages, position and skill / potential level before lowering them. Much easier said than done but I've even sent Dennis an idea. Just hate the possibility of all those guys being all stars in two years when there are much more busts than booms in draft classes, actually if you find a draft class with 10 players playing at all star level after two years it would have been maybe the best class ever. Which is a problem because in those tests there seems to be like 15 guys playing at an all star level in two years. Remembers me of oCSL Marcus "Jordan" Smart.

[Dennis]

Capping DI, pace and FCP together wouldnt make sense. Low defense + high pace will result in something like 142-168. I did test it and I would prefer the league to be realistic. Thats why pace should get capped seperately. Somewhere between 3 and 5. Zone and rebounds wont be capped because it not unrealistic. If a team wants to play heavy zone its fine, 3point shooter will take care. If you rebound a lot you wont earn fastbreak points. So that part of the game is realistic and wont be changed because its not needed to be changed and gives teams the opportunity to adjust their tactics for certain teams.

About the class. I wont edit potentials. I blieve the class is fine if it comes to potentials, but they are well developed and therefore put up insane numbers for rooks. Due to the already insane numbers you get a feeling the class might be way too strong.

[orangeparka]

Yeah I noticed rooks get way too good way too quickly, since how quickly they developed can't be controlled.

How bout reverting rookies back to the "current ratings" as scouted? I feel too many developed through TC.

[Dennis]

Yeah I noticed rooks get way too good way too quickly, since how quickly they developed can't be controlled.

How bout reverting rookies back to the "current ratings" as scouted? I feel too many developed through TC.

Yeah that would be a Logic solution. Though only guys of the Age 20 or younger. Cotton for example developes normal.
But its different for every Rookie. Parker made a 10 Point Jump in scoring. Exum on the other Hand only 4 points..

[dapralbe]

is difficult when the problem is gary and the creation of the game, there are a thousand tricks and things that would have to improve. maximum drive strategy, preferences should be 2.5 and 7.5 shoots, zone maximun 3 and fcd three maximun, more realism and more shooting, the big problem is having the same dunk pg, sg, sf pf and c, that's a big failure gary

[dapralbe]

Other think dribble drive can't be used, i real life exist high post, double post one post ball movement similar than motion, isolation but dribble drive no, one of five can dunk or drive but all? No

[Myles]

I would recommend in the future that you do not run tests using the CSL database. Use a default roster set. That way there's no seeing development of players ahead of time which gives the tester an unfair advantage.

[Dennis]

I would recommend in the future that you do not run tests using the CSL database. Use a default roster set. That way there's no seeing development of players ahead of time which gives the tester an unfair advantage.

True Story.
Maybe should use the Default roster. But the problem here have been the New created player as far as I understand. So I wouldnt be able to check the new John Wall and BG with default rosters. But you are right. Simming the actual file would be unfair. Though I didnt look at stats really despite the team stats of the teams I changed the tactics.
But thats on me. Wanted to give feedback and was so motivated during lunch I didnt thought it through.. Will run the test for 4 pace with the default rosters. Sorry for that mistake.


Whatever, any Feedback? Someone?

[Jake0890]

Well, the field goal percentages do look right. In the NBA, the best team (GSW) shoots 48%, and with pace at 3, the best was 47%, so that looks fine. Still, at 6th Boston is scoring 112 points per game which would be 2 points per game higher than the top scoring team in the league, so it's a definite improvement from what it is currently, but still not quite there. Pace does need to be capped obviously, but would lowering SCR ratings in addition help? Just a thought, not entirely sure what it would do from a statistics perspective.

But given that we've already had to cap FCP + DI at 10 and on the verge of implementing another cap to fix the scoring, I think it just goes to show you how broken DDS3 really is.