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DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

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emplep7
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DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by emplep7 »

Okay, so the OFFICIAL file has been released and is in dropbox. This will have everything up to date. Picks, newly signed players, amazing rating conversions...everything.

We mentioned the main points that changed with the conversion from DDS3 to DDS19, but with the adjustments from pre-season we wanted to bring those points up as well.

1. We lowered the BLK rating 15% globally for the league. This rating is more powerful in DDS19 and resulted in some high block averages across a season. This brings the range back into where we were with DDS3.

2. We lowered the STL rating by 5% globally for the league. Again, slightly more powerful here and it resulted in more TOs and STLs. We dropped this rating to get the TOs back into range and this is important to note for the future.

3. Rookies FG_RA and FG_RA POT were significantly lower than the non-rookie players. This has been adjusted for ALL rookies and they now fall in line with the rest of the league.

4. Through the pre-season we found that the PASS Ball Action rating was incredibly powerful (we knew this, but not to this extent). The SCR rating in DDS19 more pertains to scoring ability and less about how much they will shoot. The PASS Ball Action is essentially linked to the SCR rating now where it tells you how often a player will shoot (aka score more). The PAS rating (not the Ball Action) also is the same where it means passing ability and not how often they will pass the ball. Just note if a player has a low SCR rating, but a low PASS Ball Action they will shoot a bunch, but at a much less efficient clip than a player with a high SCR rating.

5. Because of point 4, we have directly correlated the PASS Ball Action to the DDS3 SCR and PAS ratings. This made us have to adjust all Ball Actions slightly due to the newly revised PASS Ball Action for all players.

6. PGs still shoot a ton in this engine because they have the ball in their hands the most. We had to increase the PASS Ball Action rating for all PGs to account for this and even it back to the DDS3 levels.

NOTE: If you play another player who is not a primary PG at PG, they do not shoot nearly as much as a true PG does so this increase did not apply to them.

ADDITIONAL NOTES
A. Team Makeup is critical now. You can have a player who has a low PASS Ball action only score 13 ppg because there are a lot of other scorers on the team. Its not simplified like DDS3 was and every player impacts every other player on the court now. Remember this when adjusting your own players Ball Actions.

B. Just like the game doesn't allow it, we will not be allowed to adjust the PASS Ball Action through preferences. Every other Ball Action and Floor Range can be adjusted through preferences, but not the PASS rating. The reason is that it is clear that it is far too powerful and will ruin the league dynamic is we allow this.

C. Assists are up in the new engine. This isn't a bad thing and the numbers align with the NBA, but we will have true floor generals here and a couple players who can average +10 APG. This was near impossible in DDS3, but you will see the Lonzo's, Cotton's, etc, dishing it out at much better rates.

D. Thank you all again for all of the help in finding bugs and making these adjustments! We couldnt have done it without you all.

E. Remember, this still won't be 100% perfectly converted, but we feel really really good about it after the pre-season testing and the data that generated.

Again, thanks for your patience during this but we wanted to make sure it was done right. It has been suggested that we run 2 pre-season sims so that GMs can get a better sense of these adjustments, but we plan on starting the Regular Season later this week (Thursday tentatively).

-Myles and Jon


UPDATE 2.5
Myles wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:10 pm Update Part 2.5 (and this will be included in the main post)

After some further testing, we have decided to cap the Corner location (similar to how we did for the drive preference in DDS3) to 40, in order to maintain the balance of three point shooting and keep some semblance of realism. There's a reason why when you look at the breakdown in frequency of corner three point attempts vs. three point attempts above the break, that you only see low usage role players at the top of the corner 3, and you'll never see a high usage star shooting many corner 3s (in the NBA). We didn't want to do anything too complicated and put too much on our plate, so we have decided on a flat cap of 40 for the corner location for all players. For players who's floor ranges were already above that number, we simply moved the difference into their ATB location rating, so they will still shoot the same number of 3s.
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by mgtr81 »

Thanks for all the work.
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by drumr »

Really scared my teams best two defense skills got nerfed, but I'm looking forward to seeing the result of all this hard work. I totally get it and trust it's for the best. Go Cavs and let's get it started!
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Myles »

One more thing I want to note:

Every time we made adjustments, we ran multiple test simulations to see how player stats and team stats lined up with expectations. The current file fell in line with our DDS3 team stats in every key marker within +/- 10%, meaning every single stat you could think of was within an acceptable range compared to where we used to be. We also ran tests with randomized offensive/defensive strategies to make sure that we were accounting for that. Things will be different, there is absolutely no doubt about that, but we believe we are at the very least starting from a place of keeping things close to what we remember this league being about.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by hardenwithnod »

Awesome, thanks for the hard work!
Big changes are coming in D.C.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dennis »

Sounds like logic fixes! Gonna be interesting to see how it pans out!
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by drumr »

Dennis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:12 pm Sounds like logic fixes! Gonna be interesting to see how it pans out!
If everything goes wrong I'm just gonna blame Dennis :lol:
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dennis »

drumr wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:15 pm
Dennis wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:12 pm Sounds like logic fixes! Gonna be interesting to see how it pans out!
If everything goes wrong I'm just gonna blame Dennis :lol:
You still gonna be top6 in the east. I’m not even worried about that.
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by KW »

Great work guys! Really appreciate the attention to detail.

Two things do concern me with these changes:

1) Potential overcorrection with blocks? I had been thinking 5 or so points across the board would be enough (mostly combating the increase in guard/wings shot blocking, which was a more noticeable increase imo), but the elite shot blockers lose a lot (>10 points for anyone over 70blk) from a 15% reduction.

I didn't believe the elite shot blockers were the issue here. Guys like Qi, Embiid, Towns, Collins, Ayton... were doing roughly what you'd expect a shot blocker about 5 points higher to do in DDS. I think dropping these players' BLK ratings by 11-13 points was overkill.

The mid tier of shot blockers with BLK around 60 (looking at Ingram, MKG, Boban, Wilson, John Collins averaged 2+, Bender, Tavares over 1.5) were the bigger reason why every team was blocking many more shots. I think a global change of -5 BLK to everyone just like you did with STL, would solve the problem.

--

2) I understand why it was done, but not thrilled with the inability to adjust PASS%. I would love it if there was a way to adjust PASS% but have it capped at the lower end so we don't get any role players turning into stars or stars turning into gamebreakers (I'm sure that was your biggest concern here).

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by emplep7 »

KW wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:45 pm Great work guys! Really appreciate the attention to detail.

Two things do concern me with these changes:

1) Potential overcorrection with blocks? I had been thinking 5 or so points across the board would be enough (mostly combating the increase in guard/wings shot blocking, which was a more noticeable increase imo), but the elite shot blockers lose a lot (>10 points for anyone over 70blk) from a 15% reduction.

I didn't believe the elite shot blockers were the issue here. Guys like Qi, Embiid, Towns, Collins, Ayton... were doing roughly what you'd expect a shot blocker about 5 points higher to do in DDS. I think dropping these players' BLK ratings by 11-13 points was overkill.

The mid tier of shot blockers with BLK around 60 (looking at Ingram, MKG, Boban, Wilson, John Collins averaged 2+, Bender, Tavares over 1.5) were the bigger reason why every team was blocking many more shots. I think a global change of -5 BLK to everyone just like you did with STL, would solve the problem.

--

2) I understand why it was done, but not thrilled with the inability to adjust PASS%. I would love it if there was a way to adjust PASS% but have it capped at the lower end so we don't get any role players turning into stars or stars turning into gamebreakers (I'm sure that was your biggest concern here).
For point 1, the stats from the tests were taken from the top 25%, mid tier, bottom 25% and the league average overall. This reduction aligned the stats in each tier very closely to what we had in DDS3. Anything less results in an overall increase in blocks in all tiers.

For point 2, we knew this would be a cause for concern but this rating is way too powerful and we don't understand it fully yet. Its not just the low tier guys, but even the higher tiered guys can put up some ridiculous numbers (especially PGs) if not managed appropriately. We want to go through a season with these ratings and discuss potentially adjusting our stance on this for future seasons.
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Myles »

1) The elite shot blockers are still elite. One of the things we looked at was comparing the player leaderboards from DDS19 to DDS3, not necessarily who was on there but what the upper echelon of these stats were. In almost all of our testing, the DDS19 blocks per game from the player leaderboards were higher than their DDS3 counterparts, meaning the elite shot blockers are still just as elite as they were in DDS3.

2) This is something we may look into moving forward. One of the things we had to account for is that the SCR and PAS rating mean entirely different things now than they did before, and so how we evaluated players and how we created players became entirely obsolete. It made more sense to transition the players over with them acting the way we expected them to act, and potentially down the line allow for players to be created (and adjusted) in a way that is in line with how DDS19 operates. However, we'd rather take the slow path with that, as we could definitely break the league if we aren't careful, and so we are taking this path out of an abundance of caution.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dylan »

Awesome stuff. Thanks for the hard work, and I think the changes made were perfectly reasonable and necessary.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Myles »

Also, I'd love to take this moment to really share my appreciation for Jon. I know he signed this post from the both of us, and I'm not going to say that I didn't do anything, but he put in WORK and it's incredible the amount of stuff he was able to do considering he's got kids at home, working in an industry that was affected by COVID. We did run a lot of the tests together but he was the one doing a lot of the backend work with the database, and that is no easy task. So major major props to Jon, I cannot thank you enough man.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by KW »

Fair enough, we'll see how it all plays out. I trust your testing. Definitely hope to see the passing adjustments in the future though, once we've got a better handle on things.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dennis »

Can we get an idea how pass rating was transferred? I dont see a logic way right now as some scorer are at 75 (Dunn, T Young, M Teodosic for example - Monk even at 64) while fox/Joseph are at 85 - just to name a few player. Was pass transferred according to SCR rating? All named guys are roughly same SCR and same position (PG). Yet they vary by up to 20 points+.
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Myles »

Lots of math was used, but to simplify it it was based on a factor of SCR rating and PAS rating, and then there was a positional adjustment added for point guards as there’s still needed to be higher. So basically higher SCR = lower pass tendency, higher PAS = higher pass tendency

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Rizzo »

Thanks for this massive undertaking!
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dennis »

Im not sure I get it, for example trae Young is at 75 pass with 78 scr (should increase pass compare to fox 83) and 74 pass (should increase pass tendency compared to fox 72). Yet Young’s pass pref is 10 points lower. Maybe I got it wrong though.

Or Milos at same scr but 15 points higher pass having a lower pass tendency. Don’t get it as complain, gonna work with what got dealed, but I’m just trying to understand the conversation as it appears not to be as easy as -x% for a rating ha :D
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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Myles »

Don’t know what to tell you, and I’m not going to dig in to every player’s individual pass tendencies. Here’s what I know: we created an algorithm that used SCR rating and PAS rating to create a pass tendency, that was within a range of like 50-90 or something like that.

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Re: DDS19 File Updates Part 2: PLEASE READ

Post by Dennis »

All good, just tough luck I think. Was just confused that lower scr higher pass guys have a lower pass tendency. That’s it.
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